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Just a couple of questions.

Started by Sharpy! on 2:01pm 28/9/10. 3,264 views and 123 posts, 0 users reading, last post by DisaFear.

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So lately i've been thinking i normally pick random or just terran/protoss as i don't like zerg so much and when i look for a game i don't think about what i'm going to do in the game i usually wait and build more primary units to start off with till i either push or be rushed then make up my mind is this a bad way to go about playing?

Also, when i'm matched against gold, diamond and what ever else i lose 9/10 times i don't understand what makes them a better player and i'd like some help i know i'm asking some terrible noob questions but this is the 1st rts game i've tried to play properly coming from the fps scene and i'm curious

And on a side note if someone is willing to give me a few pointers about what works with what in army wise say zealots with speed, stalker combo's and such that would be pretty cool.
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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watch replays, learn when the right time to push is, see how your opponent is spending his resources compared to you, if you see more unit producing structers when you scout, defend, if you notice him expanding early or going for a fast tech, do a timed push
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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Quote from Sharpy! on the 28th of September 2010:
when i look for a game i don't think about what i'm going to do in the game i usually wait and build more primary units to start off with till i either push or be rushed then make up my mind is this a bad way to go about playing?

I'm the kind of gamer who always goes into a game with a plan. Usually its as simple as having a build order I want to use in the early game. Now, as good as having a plan is, you really need to scout. Scouting allows you to know when your initial plan is not working and can give you the chance you need to transition into a new strat.

As for this:
Quote from Sharpy! on the 28th of September 2010:
Also, when i'm matched against gold, diamond and what ever else i lose 9/10 times i don't understand what makes them a better player

Watch replays. This will show you what they have done in the games you lost. Don't just focus on the better players whilst watching replays either. Watch the game from your point of view and look for periods where you could have done something better. For example, if you see that you don't have the optimal number of workers collecting resources, 3 per mineral patch/gas, and you can see that you have the mins to be able to build workers, make a note of it and tell yourself that you could be making workers with these spare mins.

At the end of the day, its practice that makes the better gamers the best. Just keep playing and try and learn something from every game you play, win or lose.
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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Not sure why you're asking this.
Everything after 14 Pool/Gas I just wing, that's my play style. Play to have fun, nothing else.

And post replays so we can answer your second paragraph.
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
Mmm
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What do you mean 14pool?

Here's a link to one of my replays i'm pretty terrible.
www.cybergamer.com.au/file.php?dl=1302
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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He means that when you are at 14 of X population, build a Spawning Pool.

I'm going to have a watch of your replay now.... So I'll get back to you.
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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thanks
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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Okay, so I am about halfway through the replay and here are the things I have picked up.

You simply don't have enough Probes. There is a period of 2 and a bit minutes where you aren't producing Probes. 10 Probes is simply not enough, especially in the early game.

Next thing I noticed, 4+ Cannons in your Main before you had your second Zealot out... If you are paranoid, stick a couple near your mineral line. you had way too many for that stage of the game (4th Cannon was placed at 15/XX). Cannon's cost 150 mins which would have been better spent on units, or better yet Probes.

Your first Gas went down pretty late IMHO, not to mention you only had the one Probe mining it. As I said in my first post in this thread, 3 workers per resource is the optimal number. Any more than this and the returns are negligible. So if you have 8 Mineral Patches and the two gas deposits, the magic number is 30 (10*3). Your late gas problem was compounded by your lack of worker saturation.

EDIT: Okay, I have finished watching the replay. Rather than make a new post, I'll just edit this one.

Well, by the end of the game you had made 20ish Cannons and I'd be surprised if they even managed 20 kills between them. You effectively wasted 3000 mins on them.

This cam back to bite you in a big way, as by the time your opponents made their push against your ally, you only had 2 Stalkers and 3 Carriers (with the 21 Interceptors they make). The Protoss player on the other side had something like 45-50+ Stalkers... Well and truly critical mass.

Your main problem is your Build Order. I would suggest watching YouTube tutorials or reading the various forums and giving the things you learn from there a practice.

Edited once, 28/9/10 - 3:48pm.
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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so should i drop the gas refiner at 10xx while my pylon builds then allocate 2 probes straight on the gas and build another 3 - 4 while i construct my gateway?
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always have probes producing
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A better Opening Build would be something like:
9 Pylon
13 Gateway
14 Gas
16 Pylon
18 Cyber Core
18 2nd Gas
You just need to make sure you are always making probes.
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oh ok that makes sense when you put it like that and also i have another problem i either expand to early or not at all is there an certain time you need to expand or is that why you scout so you can find out when it's safe to expand.
I don't like using the natural on maps where there's more then 1 place my base can be as the natural will make scouting easier for the opponent and i won't see what he's got coming at me.
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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A few of these have been mentioned already, but a few tips off the top of my head as a fellow random player...

1) As Protoss and Terran, you should never stop building Probes or SCV's. Try to always have one in production.

2) As Protoss and Terran, don't overqueue units. For example, you should never have like 3 Marauders queued at a single Barracks. If you have that much money, you should consider producing an additional Barracks instead.

3) As Zerg, you need to scout your opponent as much as possibly and play very reactively. How do you know when it's safe to make Drones, or when you should be making a bunch of units to defend against an incoming attack? Should you stay Tier 1 and tower up a bit to survive the 4gate push, or should you get to Tier 2 and get Hydras? This is the sort of decisions you need to make, and you can't make these decisions without knowing what your opponent is doing.

4) As Terran and Protoss, the above applies, but you don't need to play so reactively. You can follow some general builds and unit compositions and still be in a fairly safe position.

5) You always hear this cliche, but it's famous for a reason: the best defense is a good offense. Towers can only accomplish so much. Towers are favourable in three common scenarios.
Scenario A - You're Zerg, and you can't possibly produce enough units to defend an incoming attack due to larvae restrictions.
Scenario B - Your army is very immobile, and thus you can't be expected to defend your base whilst moving out and attacking. (ie. When playing against Mutalisks or Banshees)
Scenario C - You need detection to protect your mineral line. (ie. DT's, Banshees, etc)

6) Knowing when and how to expand with each race comes with experience, I can't offer much more in that regard. However, if you've got more than 30 workers in your main base, it's definitely time to expand and shift half of them over to your new mineral line so you can capitalise on the high worker count. Ultimately it all comes down to what map you're on, where your opponent is located, what strategy he's using and whether or not you can afford to safely secure your expansion whilst having enough units to stay alive. This is especially critical for Protoss, since as a Terran or Zerg player, you're still yielding the benefit of additional MULE's/Larvae from a 2nd Hatchery/Command Center that isn't harvesting minerals.

7) Watch replays, learn build orders. But don't strictly rely on them. Just use them as a foundation for understanding the dynamics of each matchup. From here, you can twist the builds and add your own styles to try out new strategies. But for the time being, I'd recommend sticking to a single race and learning 1 build for each matchup before moving on to a new race.

8) Understanding unit counters is pretty important, and as a Random player, you'll be a lot more switched on to unit costs and composition requirements than most people who play a single race. For example knowing how many of X are required to beat Y, or being able to evaluate your opponents army value at a glance, and knowing how much you need to invest to match it. Hotkeys are also important. Sure it doesn't seem like a huge advantage if you know that the hotkeys for Zergling Speed, Baneling Speed, Stim, Marauder Shells, Combat Shields and Pre-Igniter are M, C, T, G, C, and I, but over the course of an entire game, those tiny time-savers can really add up.

9) Psychology is very important. You can trick (or force) your opponent into making a certain unit type by controlling the information you give them. Some examples would include building a Roach Warren or Baneling nest in plain sight, whilst hiding a Spire elsewhere. If a Terran scans your base and sees either of those structures, they won't favour Marines or Thors in their unit composition, which allows you to capitalise with Mutalisks.

10) Multitasking. Being able to micro a small force (or several small forces) at once whilst expanding, teching, producing units or queueing workers is one of the most important skills of the game. It's all well and good if you micro like a king and manage to take down 5 Stalkers with your 3 Marauders and 4 Marines, but if you've got 1500 minerals and you're supply capped after the fight is over, your opponent is going to recover and beat you with a counter-attack.

Hope you find some of this valuable.
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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cheers dox,
Also i seem to have trouble with zerg i don't understand how i'm supposed to build an army and drones at a consitent rate do i build a 2nd lair in my base to produce more larvae i'm aware that you use the queens ability to boost them but you can only do that so often and it doesn't seem to aid me much, and even expanding i spend more lava on drones then i do on units and it always seems to end up less favoured for me
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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My weakest race is Zerg for the exact same reason. I have alot of difficulty reading situations and knowing exactly when it's safe to make Drones, and how many I should be making. I often find myself producing 10 Drones only to discover my opponent on his way to my base 10 seconds later.

Refer to point 3!
Posted on Tuesday, 28th September 2010
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Just a couple of questions.