Tournament games will be 1-4 on all campaigns.

keep finales, play the game as it was designed to be played.. if they survive.. like you said.. well deserved.. if not.. better luck next time ay.

Maps 1-4: 40 minutes of gameplay

Finale: 45 minutes of gameplay

please get rid of them. the game is long enough already

DT > NM > DA > BH according to the difficulty in finishing it

we could do this - if a team makes it to the switch and if they have more than (say) 150 HB they are allowed to play it out in its entirety. If they have less HB i.e. bleeding etc. it really is quite hard to survive the finale. This way we can save time and rewards the surv team by giving them a choice to play the whole finale.

I think both teams deserve a chance to play at least the first tank. But consider this, if surv team is all healthy and they have started the event they are in a good position to make it regardless of the map.

I'm more in favour of removing them for the sheer fact that shorter games will give more teams opportunity to fit their matches into their lifestyle, considering the tournament will be playing 2 games a week.

Adding an arbitrary HB cut off isn't going to help, especially considering we're basing the ability to survive finale purely off awful pug games.

I don't know why you guys are avoiding the question. Finales will be played as long as they are there... People will just adapt to the game after maybe a match or two. It's ultimately up to the administrators.

I hate when games get butchered to a point where they don't even resemble what they looked like to start with. Sure, mods have to be put in place for the obvious reasons and things must be cut here and there to accommodate.

So firstly I would look at why you are think they need to be cut. Time, obviously. The game takes quite a while to get a result, albeit I don't think that is the reason why a lot people have stopped playing. So now we know it's a time issue ask the question 'how do we make it shorter without affecting the intended game play?'

The finales in L4D were designed to be a make or break level. Very hard to make but if you do the reward is big. IMO that's a great system with how the maps USUALLY play out up till that point. So how to fix the length issue without altering the scoring system that is in place?

Well for one, I think you could take out 1 tank and that wouldn't affect the chances of them making it much. This would greatly decrease the time it takes to complete the level. Maybe remove the event and just have tanks spawns after each other? Or maybe, still look at dropping the finale but then alter the scoring system so map 3 (or w/e is deemed that hardest has a bigger reward). That one would be much more difficult to work out and probably not worth it.

All in all, I think leaving the game as untouched as possible or at least making it play the way it was intended is the golden rule. Just removing the finale, IMO, changes the game way to much. It could be done but I feel other alterations would have to be put in its place.

I agree with Tratty.

Finales are fun to play, fun to watch. Of course they are challenging but the rewards on making it are huge.
Think about L4D2 Season 2(?) finale. Pokemon vs. Exodus.

Finales can make or break game. Not to mention, the pressure on map 4 as map 2-3 are harder to finish on some campaigns.

And please for the love of God don't make your opinions based on pugs.

I think if you set aside time to play a competitive L4D campaign you pretty much cancel any plans you had that night anyway, so making it shorter wouldn't really encourage more teams to join.
I can't think of anyone that left this game on the basis that matches took too long.

On the other hand...finales can be a fruitless attempt sometimes with rotoblin, especially bloodharvest, if you don't clear that 1st tank efficiently enough you're not going to survive the map with pills alone. I like meltdown's idea of having to clear a certain 'checkpoint' health bonus, only prob is I feel like we're alienating new ppl and messing with perfection modding L4D1 that way. ^^

Maybe to make BH less of a drag, with tanks that intend to 'hide-and-let-bleed', we add a few more pills to it? I think it would make the tank play more interesting and remove a contentiously pointless 40mins. Maybe to satisfy Melt's idea we remove a pill or two from the start and supply further down the track, the idea being if they make it past a certain distance with less pills, they've got what it takes to finish the finale.

Aren't we the only country that still plays finales, or do yanks still play them?

I ask you!

Shall we reform?

Bring back T2s.

take them out imo if you're that much better than the other team to make it and win the game you shouldn't be losing in the first place

At this stage no one lives finales, they're just a waste of time. Some people like playing them just for fun (personally I find them boring), but they're not really necessary for ladder matches. Should be removed imo. PS: Most map 4s are still pretty dumb atm too, but they're fine with x1 multiplier.

Remove them, it's hardly butchering the game.

When is the last time anyone has finished a finale in the tournament? We rarely if ever finish them in pugs.

Everyone else in the world has got rid of finales because they're -silly-, Tratty I would really really recommend actually playing the game, with the new config before making your opinion final.

Also with the removal of multipliers, it brings more pointlessness in leaving them.

Get rid of them! There should be no argument here, they're not fun Melt!! wtf